#5 Finding your way in the adult world after University (with Ronald Poon)
Episode Summary & Links
Find out how and why that lost, in-between phase post-uni can actually be your biggest OPPORTUNITY and blessing in disguise if you have the courage to step off the main rat race, plunge into the discomfort of the unknown and ask yourself some profound internal questions.
In this episode with my brother, we dive into:
his struggles and challenges after finishing Uni
why he left his Corporate Law job
how he made those tough cross-road life decisions
life in Montreal and why he moved to Canada
his Life Economist blog and how that got him his current job
how he finally emerged on the other side with more freedom
Check out his website & blog: https://thelifeeconomist.com/
Follow his IG here: https://www.instagram.com/ronaldpoon15/
Let's continue the conversation over at:
https://www.instagram.com/emilypeilan/
Meet fellow Freedom Nomads on a unique retreat experience, join here: https://www.freewildsouls.com/retreats
Create more freedom by learning how to attract more website traffic and ideal clients with my free Website & SEO checklists:
https://www.arohavisuals.com/resources
Episode Transcript
Emily Peilan: All right. Welcome back to another episode. Today is a special one. I've got my brother Ronald here with me today. And we're gonna dive into to, you know, bits and pieces of our childhood. Where, where he's at now. And yeah, just talk about what brought her here. So, hey Ron. How's it going?
Ronald Poon: Hello everyone. Still working on my friend .
Emily Peilan: So Ronald, you tell me, tell everyone a little bit about like where do you live now and where are we recording this as well?
Ronald Poon: Yeah. So, currently I live in the beautiful province of Quebec, in the city of Montreal and Canada. Still learning and working on that French part, but right now I am in Portugal with my sister visiting her in Europe.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. So we're actually recording this in my bedroom where it's nice and quiet and super cozy. And you've been in Europe for the last, what, three weeks? Yes. , we've been meaning to do this episode for a while now, right? Like at the start. But it's actually nice we're doing it now cuz we've, like, the last day we're like super chill. So nice to have you here. So Ron you are currently, you, your full-time job is innovation consultant?
Ronald Poon: Yeah, so I'm an innovation consultant and I guess my life hack here is that I actually work in Toronto, but I can live out of Montreal. Right, so you're working
Emily Peilan: remotely? Yes. Yeah.
It's fully. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, he's been, or we'll get into it, we're doing another episode where we dive into, What his experience was like, like work and traveling on this Europe trip. But on the side he has a blog called The Life Economist and yeah. John, tell us a little bit more about that.
Ronald Poon: Yeah, yeah. So I actually started this blog. I had the idea when I was living with my mom in Ashton, Wisconsin, you know, a small place in the Midwest of America, . Yeah. So that's where I kind of started the idea. But it wasn't until I got to Montreal in October to December that I really hashed out of this idea.
And I was actually a little bit nervous about releasing it. But I finally released it on both Instagram and Facebook. And essentially the blog just goes through a bunch of different, And I've always been a huge fan of self-improvement books, you know, like J James Cleo, mark Manson. So I wanted to write my own stuff.
And essentially it's a mixture of my very pragmatic way of thinking mixed with some emotional elements and hence Wise called the Life Economist.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. But like, what was the drive like? What kind of topics did you write about?
Ronald Poon: Topics that I wrote about. So one of the topics, there's all these different categories, but we have like big decisions, daily life, new thoughts health and fitness, and also interpersonal relationships.
. . So trying to cover a broad cross section Yeah. Of different things. And essentially it's helping people maximize and make better decisions, which I studied economics at university, so I find that stuff really interesting and. linking it instead of to financial decisions, just general
life. Nice.
Emily Peilan: Nice. Yeah. Cause I feel like I've, you know, some of your articles also touch on this, this idea of like, after university you're kind of just thrown out into the adult world and, and it can be really stressful, it can be really confusing time after uni and I know you kind of went through your own period of like, oh, you weren't sure what to do, where to be.
And so yeah, like what were. You know, some of your own struggles, like in between that phase. . .
Ronald Poon: Yeah, that's a really good point. Cause actually, one of my articles was I talk pretty openly about my core life prices as well as another one, which is called like the goal of adulthood and then other things about law school, et cetera.
But, I guess the, the struggle that I went through was that, you know, I graduated or finished studying around March, 2021 and I didn't really know what I wanted to do and you know, a lot of my friends had started entering professional full-time jobs and I was still working as a swim teacher. And then I kind of decided to be like, oh, hey, you know, after talking to a good friend while playing tennis want, he had this idea like, oh, you know, you're still young.
Like, why don't you just go travel? So I took my mom's offer of going to America to, you know, cause I hadn't seen her in two years cause of the pandemic. So I decided, Take that adventure, move to North America, and after that I get you're officially started. So Nice. And now you live in Montreal? Yes.
Yeah. Oh, so far. But I guess that's what the, the struggles happen too. Yeah. As well. Yeah. When you're on the other side of the world without friends and you're kind of like, figure out what you want to do for the rest of your life. Like starting fresh. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: Anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. So like back, you know, let's go back to high school.
Like where did you think you'd be back then? . Now you, did you ever see yourself in Canada and, and all?
Ronald Poon: Probably not. I mean, like when I left high school, like everyone, everyone who knew me at the time knew how much, like I loved Melbourne. Yeah. You know, like Melbourne was like the dream, you know? I was like, that's true.
Like the life is like, oh, I'll get like a big corporate job and I, you know, get like boxed tickets to the Australian Open every year. And I, you know, lived near South Bank or South Yara, you know, like a really nice area of Melbourne. So that was kind of like the dream growing up. And hence why I wanted to go to Monash and Everyth.
Yeah. Yeah. It really changed.
Emily Peilan: Yeah, absolutely. It changed. And, and so like what, like what, at what point did that start to change and like what changed you? Was it your experiences traveling? Was it people that you met along the way and what kind of influenced you to sort of. Lived life a little bit differently now.
Ronald Poon: Yeah, I think it was just a mixture, like dissatisfaction with some of like my degree in, you know, early professional work experience as well. . But then after that it really progressed after, you know, traveling with you. We did this first trip to Europe, which really inspired me. We went to like Italy and Greece.
. So that was in 2018. And then after that, I a hundred percent caught the travel bug, went to Southeast Asia and in 2018 was lucky enough to go on my first real exchange. It's a part of Italy, and that's where I traveled to I think 17 countries in a hundred days. So that was really cool. Wow. Uh, Just to get to see like Scandinavia, Eastern Europe central, you know, everywhere.
Emily Peilan: That was so fun. Yeah. That was so fun. A great time. Yeah. Nice, nice. And yeah. Do you think it was the people along the way that you met that kind of, that different way of living that inspired you? Different life perspectives? Like what do you. ?
Ronald Poon: Yeah, I think it was meeting people outside my social group.
And I think one thing that actually really helped me, even though I don't want to be a lawyer, but I think one thing I'm so grateful for is actually studying a law degree. Yeah. Because it introduced me to this wider circle of people. Yeah, yeah. Especially people who generally had this like, Arts law combination.
Yeah. Yeah. Just a very different perspective. Yeah. Too, when I was doing straight commerce and I think the people that I met throughout the course that Mm, like just changed my perspective. I felt like every consequence Yeah. Just pulled me in a different direction and yeah, just made me think a lot more broadly.
Emily Peilan: Nice. And do you think if you, like, didn't go in the exchanges and like stayed in Melbourne the entire time that you would be what you are now? ,
Ronald Poon: I would say I'd want to work in similar potential career settings, but might not necessarily have had like, a dream to go live abroad. Yeah. Because I think those, those, those experiences, I think especially in 2019, like being in the eu and it really inspired me to like, want to live in different countries.
Emily Peilan: . and, and like, what were some of then, would you say the biggest lessons that you learned when you were on exchange or when you were traveling?
Ronald Poon: Ooh. , I'd say one of them was like, you really don't need that much to be happy. Yeah. That was a nice
Emily Peilan: one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ronald Poon: . , it was very different.
There's a small moment. Yeah. When you are, when you are like just kind of like crashing around in like Rome airport or you know, freedom camping all over Norway or staying at different hostels in SL India, it kind of just makes you realize like, wow. And, and, and obviously you see the contracts where you see maybe somewhere in Italy you see these like really nice yachts and boats and you see people living quite extravagant lifestyle, but then you're just as happy if not happier sometimes.
Yeah, absolutely. Just hiking around with your big.
Emily Peilan: Yeah, it's fun. I think it's that feeling of like, for, for me anyway, it's like to feel alive, to feel adventurous, and that makes me happy. Mm. Right. Just to be outside your comfort zone. Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. So, and between kind of like. , high school, university, your gap year and now, like what would you say were some of your big crossroads and what were the, how did you make those really hard decisions?
Like to stay in Melbourne or to leave to, you know, go back to New Zealand or to go to Montreal, you know?
Ronald Poon: . . Yeah. I think when I moved to Australia it was pretty like comfortable and confident to like, keep living there. Yeah. I would say the whole, like, trying to pick your career thing, I. Why I took so long was because like there were so many different things that I was potentially interested in.
Yeah. You know, when you study like things that digital sustainability or AI and all these different topics, you're just like, oh, everything kind of grabs my interest, but nothing was like, truly felt like you my calling in a way. Yeah. It wasn't your calling. Well, well there's just like, there's many career paths that you entertain and you want indulge.
. , but at the end of the day, you have to just make one choice and you've gotta realize that at this age . , like, you know, say I'm in the tech sector now. Yeah. Now I can also do sustainability later, or I can get into education or the government side of things. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: Like you can always do things later.
Exactly. Yeah. Do everything now, but pick something now and go with it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And so. In that phase in between when you were in Ashland and you weren't sure where to go next or what to do next what do you think contributed to you feeling lost and confused after university and like, what would your advice be to those people?
Kind of like going through that same phase, just post uni lost. Phase.
Ronald Poon: Hmm. That's a good question. I think for me, what contributed to me being lost was feeling like I was stuck in this impossible dichotomy or this binary choice of like, oh, if I do a fun job. Cause I, at the time I was playing a lot of tennis and I was getting tennis coaching.
Yeah. And I did some volunteer tennis coaching in Wisconsin, right. At uws. That's right. Superior. And I was thinking, oh, like. Choice I've gotta make between doing fun jobs such as the swim coaching and tennis coaching. . , it's a little bit tar, but I might not necessarily have the career that I want, but it's more enjoyable.
It's more fun to like, hang out with, you know, college students or to teach kids how to swim. Yeah. Versus like, ah, like a, a more rigorous, like, professional job. But you have to be, you know, very, it's not like you have to be punctual, but it's like, You have to be very professional and serious and I thought like I had to make this choice between satisfaction and the future.
Okay. But then realizing that you can actually have both at the same time.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. Is possible. Yeah. So kinda like something like tossing up between what you should do and doing something that brings you joy. Yeah. And then kind of finding somewhere sort of in between that brings you joy that also you feel like purposeful maybe as well.
Ronald Poon: Yeah, I, I'd say so. I'd say there's also a lot. expectation as well.
Emily Peilan: . because of what you've studied and, and what whatnot.
Ronald Poon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe this resonates with some people who, who might have felt this like, because not so much the pressure from, you know, teachers or cuz there's all always support.
But potentially if you were somewhat of a high achiever at high school, university, you, you have this expectation, whether it's from other people, but you start, or even yourself, you start putting it on yourself. Yeah. Like, oh, I've. Be more than just what I am now. Yeah. I have to like make a career. Yeah.
Yeah.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. And also a bit of that like lost, was it like sunk cost, like you've spent, I don't know, say five year studying law or six year studying medicine. Like I can't just, you know, go and do something else. Now I have to bear this thing that I studied to be, you know, yeah.
Ronald Poon: Major to some co policy,
Emily Peilan: even though it might.
Even though at some point you might realize, oh, this isn't actually the thing I want to do, or this doesn't actually bring me joy, but it's like, oh, I've done it now. Have a student, well, we have to pay loads for our education in, in Australia and New Zealand. And so it's like that sunk cost like. Time and money.
You're like, oh, I can't go back now. Yeah. But I think it's so sad to almost spend the next, the best years of your life in your twenties and your thirties doing something that you, you, that, that doesn't bring you joy just because of the sunk cost, right?
Ronald Poon: . , I'd say also the link to all this is that when you do pick a degree that is slightly more specific, You, you start thinking, oh, I have to, well, you know that you don't have to be a lawyer or like work in law .
But as soon as you get rid of that safety net thought, cause once I dispelled that, I was like, I, I just clearly don't wanna be a, like a lawyer or, or work around Yeah. Law cuz it just didn't interest me that much. It, it kind of puts you out in the open and yeah, it's kind of a scary place cause you're just like, oh, like what jobs are there?
Like what jobs do you. Yeah. And you don't really get that guidance sometimes, I'd say, yeah.
Emily Peilan: Two questions. Do you, at what point did you. finally kind of make that decision for yourself. Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna like work in law. Like was that from previous experiences having intern at a few law firms, or it just wasn't like an industry that you saw people and you're like, I don't wanna be like you
Ronald Poon: Yeah. It was a combination of like, Past previous work experiences, but I was open-minded to it because, you know, I did enjoy studying those law units when I was in Italy and I was, oh, this is somewhat interesting. And some of them started getting more interesting towards the end. But then when I did my second clinical placement in a subject matter that I was like interested about at the Climate Justice Clinic through Ashley, I realized that, oh, even though I could be working, Say something I care deeply about.
It's not exactly how I'd like to use my skills, cuz it was at the end gonna be a review. Not the bore people here, but like yeah. It, it is just, it's still like dealing with like legal process
Emily Peilan: and, yeah. I got and it just didn't like excite to you. Yeah. Didn't sign you, but like do you regret studying law and economics at, at university or did you wanna study something else if you got the choice to
Ronald Poon: Yeah, I think I was always interested in things like nutrition, science and psychology.
You know, just a combination of different things. But I think at the end of the day, it, it was the degree for me to pick, despite all those moments where you're like, oh, I wish I studied something
Emily Peilan: else. Yeah. and, and like, would you change, like going back to university and would you change anything? Is there anything like you wish you did extra?
Ronald Poon: Honestly, I would say I wish I put a little bit more time into thinking about my career. . Okay. Okay. Just, just networking with different people, taking on more exciting opportunities and also maybe doing some case competitions.
Emily Peilan: Okay. Yeah, kind of. . By that do you mean? Mm. Talking to more people who do a vast majority, like a diversity of different things so that you weren't limited to just law.
. And you know, this narrow branch of what you could do, but rather you could network and, and hear stories from loads of other people doing loads of different things and have more possibilities presented to. .
Ronald Poon: Yeah, definitely. Like a broader variety would be a lot better. Yeah. And, and I think a, a lot of the onus is on you as a person as well, cuz it might not necessarily be presented to you .
So you have to go out searching for some of these
Emily Peilan: students. Right. Because I like, I've also, everybody, as you do at university, they've got those open days and they've got people, companies to come in and try to recruit you and, but they're all more or. Very traditional jobs. You know, there were very like nine to five sort of office ish jobs and they're beyond that.
I feel like there is a richness, a vast ocean of possibilities of what you could do using what you study, but in a completely different way. And there are so, oh, there's just so much interesting, so many interesting jobs out there. And I think it's so sad that it doesn't get presented at university because I don't know.
Ronald Poon: Yeah, I mean there's so many, there's plenty of jobs and like exciting small startups. Or even in the job, I'm currently working now, I meet all these people from different companies like whether there's small or medium, and I'm just thinking as well, there's so many different things, but we only hear about like the big companies.
Per se. Yeah. You know, like the big banks, the big auditing firms, you know, law firms, et cetera. Or you can work for the government. Yeah. But I didn't, well, you know that these small to medium consultancy firms or any type of other companies, Exist. Yeah. Because they have to kind of exist. Yeah. But you don't really know how to reach out to them per se.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. Ex Yeah, that's true. . , that's true. It's like, how can you Yeah. Find these people in the first Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But then again, like networking, going to things and doing things that you don't normally do and, and, yeah. So we're gonna take a short break here so I can share a little tip with you.
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Ronald Poon: I'd say some of the best decisions. would be, oh, well, one of them for sure was like joining this tennis club nearby. In, in Montreal? No. So this was back in in Melbourne. Oh, Melbourne. Back in Melbourne, okay. This was in my second year of uni and I, I, I hadn't really played tennis properly for my first year and a half.
. and then I joined this club and I think, , that was really nice cause it gave me this purpose, sense of community and it allowed me to meet all these different people that Nice. You know, a lot of like older people as well, not older, but like, you know, in their thirties or forties. And then by talking to them you get an idea of what type of life you'd want ultimately.
Yeah. So that was one of them. And I'd say the second or third ones, you know, I already mentioned the travel side of things. And then the third one would be picking a different minor in different electives. I think that really helped as well. Cause I ended up picking a sustainability minor. Which allowed me to study things like economics and climate change.
And then also, I guess in my law degree, I got to study, especially towards the end. . Like a lot of more different exciting subjects like negotiations or the global lawyer. And also all the ones like, I literally studied like film literature and cinema things called that. So, so fun.
Emily Peilan: Yeah, it was fun.
Yeah. And I think those things are, are important, you know, to, to. I don't know, to get a different perspective on life and to bring that into what it is that your, your major as well. . Just, yeah, experiencing that and meeting different people. Yeah. That's so cool. And so like now you are kind of move, you've moved past that.
Phase. And I feel like you have a lot more like direction, a lot more structure, a lot more kind of yeah, A lot more full. Like you've just got some more plans now that are more concrete. Mm. You know, at least for a couple years. How would you describe the phase you are in now?
Ronald Poon: I'd call it a building phase.
Ah, yeah. Because I felt like I was lucky enough in the latter half . and plus the Gaia that this, this flourish phase where I've got to expand my horizons and yeah. Truly see more of the world. Whereas now I kind of know what I like and know where I want to live and yeah, my career. So I'd say, At, at this age in your mid twenties?
I'm 20, 25 next month. Geez. . But I think it's important to start kind of catching eye towards the future a little bit more seriously and like thinking about building a little bit of stability but of career progression and also just like roots as well. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: That's nice. And like looking back, you know, I know you're only 25, but still looking back, like what period do you think was like the hardest or the most challenging period of
your.
Winter 2021 .
Ronald Poon: It's like, it's just a like context. Like, it's like pretty long. Like the winters in Canada. Yeah, in Montreal, which I was obviously excited about cause I wanted to go, you know, ice skating and everything. But at the same time it's kind of, it's long and you're like inside a lot. Also lockdown though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Covid hit again in the 2021 and I couldn't travel, so I was originally gonna come visit you in around Christmas time and everything. Totally. But I'd. . That period was hard. And I also had a tough period, you know, in my personal relationships as well. Yeah. I wouldn't, wasn't as smooth as it is now.
And I'd say that period was tough because I didn't have my usual support network of friends. . , I didn't know where I was going career wise and I was starting to like, you know when you move out and you stop working, and, yeah. Cause that was before you got your job. Yeah, before I got my job. Yeah. It, it got to a point where I like, was struggling to afford bread.
Yeah. You know, like, and I'm not exaggerating this, you know, I know, you know, luckily my housemate, Antoine, you know, he, he was like very flexible with like my rant in January and everything. But like, honestly, I was, I was struggling. Yeah. A lot. Like, and, and I guess that financial pressure, that point is just like, oh, like what am I doing?
Cause I know that I could. If I used my degree or if I did any kind of job, I could afford some of these things. You know, I wanna take out my girlfriend to dinner and everything, but I was, at least you couldn't. And that was pretty tough for me. Yeah. Let's see. On top of the lack of true purpose, belonging direction.
Yeah. Yeah. You just, that was just a Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I lost phase plus. Not me and afford like just normal stuff.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. And then just questioning your life choices. .
Ronald Poon: Yeah. Full, full corner life. Blown out, like substantial crisis. Yeah. Yeah,
Emily Peilan: yeah. And okay, so now I feel like you've moved past this, this hunt, this.
This really difficult period of your life and you've kind of broken free of this, of this mold. What do you think is possible for you now? Like what's in store for you now?
Ronald Poon: Hopefully a lot more experiences, I guess, have worked in travel. When I see a lot more different countries, especially South America.
As well, but hopefully I can come back to Europe every year. So that's something, I guess from a more personal side. Yeah. But I've got on the work side of things, like it's really exciting working at ovo, which is an innovation consultancy. So hopefully I can either take my blog, the Life Economist or do something else and kind of start my own business on the side a little bit further with that as well.
But otherwise, I'm just really excited to have more time to do things that I really. Yeah, she's like tennis and hopefully I can learn French and Spanish a lot better through my girlfriend, Susie, or you know, just in generally .
Emily Peilan: That's so nice. That's so nice. And so your blog, I'm gonna list it in the show notes below that Sounds good so you can find it.
Last question for you before we round this off. What does living a free world and soulful life mean to you?
Ronald Poon: Ooh, that's a good question.
Emily Peilan: What does it look like? What does it look like? ,
Ronald Poon: it looks like swimming in the beach, going to waterfalls, being by the lake. Exploring mountains. I guess having both the financial ability and the time, ability to go out and seek those moments.
Yeah. It could be like in a fjord in Norway. It could be in the Alps. In Austria. Uhhuh. could be an island like in Bali. Okay.
Emily Peilan: You can also be in all those places and still not feel. Free, you could also be in those places and feel stressed. So how does it feel like for you as well?
Ronald Poon: . That's a good question.
Especially while we can touch on it in the next episode, , but I'd say the, that feeling of freedom is that you have, it sounds cheesy or corny, but I kind of absolutely no worries that your body is fully. . Relaxed and free. Yeah. Like you could be floating in the water, you could just be sitting there breathing in that fresh air.
. . But like, there is, and I, and I've experienced that when I was, you know, three years ago when I was on exchange and everything. Yeah. But that's probably what it feels like. . , it's just like full, full clarity I would say. And presence. Presence, yeah. You're like fully in the moment. It, yeah. I dunno how to describe it.
Pretty much transient. It's a transcendent moment. Yeah. That's beautiful.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. That's beautiful. Aw, thanks so much for hopping all. Thank you. I love chatting with you. And yeah, I'm excited to be another episode with you soon about your, your job.
Ronald Poon: Yes. . What So you guys all soon, bye.
Emily Peilan: So, Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. I'm so grateful for your time, and I would love to hear what you found most insightful or resonated with the most from today's conversation. You can send me a personal DM over on Instagram at Emily Peilan. That's E M I L Y P E I L A N, and please also share this episode with any family or friends looking to create this freedom lifestyle.
And lastly, if you're craving a wild creative adventure with a bunch of rad, soulful humans, you can find out more on our retreats page here. freewildsouls.com/retreats. That's all for today, my friends!
